Cocktales On the Rx
Cocktales On the Rx
Parent Alienation On the Rx
Cockytales about the parent who intentionally alienates, disrespects and disregards the other parent of your child. Whatever it takes, be a stand for your child, home and most importantly your boundaries.
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Dr. Other parent,
When your actions do not correlate with your words and you speak badly of the parent of a child, you are abusing a child. Stop making it hard for another to raise a child, its mental, emotional and psychological abuse.
[inaudible][inaudible]
Speaker 2:Hey guys, we're back. Oh, we already started Lisa's back leaf. I miss you so much. Have I haven't seen you. Well, okay. So Lisa has been so busy. I've been so busy. Yeah. And um, I've missed you a lot. I've missed you too. We have had some guests in between and last time we said we were gonna talk about parent alienation and I'm so glad that you're back cause I'd been wanting to talk about that, right. Being that, um, I never really had too much of that problem because my kids are a little bit older, but I still, it's still there that, um, I can tell that he's trying to win them over or he's trying to just take over, stepping over my boundaries with time and picking up and dropping off. And to me, that's when you don't respect somebody. You're teaching, your kids don't respect her, she doesn't deserve respect. And then there's that alienation starts to come in where the kids start to get confused. What do you think about that? Well, I think parent alienation is, um, you know, it's, it's kind of like that little secret that you keep under as a parent because you kind of feel ashamed of being alienated from your child. It's called adult child estrangement. Um, if they're an adolescent, it's parent alienation. So for me, um, you know, because that's something I'm going through right now with my son and what his dad has done and it's taken his dad probably the course of the divorce in order to manipulate my child into this alienation. And I noticed it when he was a sophomore and the phone conversations that I would ease drop on, but not intentionally ease drop on my son would think that I'm not home. And I'd come home and then I'd hear his dad speak to him about me and using the terms like, your mother's crazy and you are a mother, so you really need to monitor that. Well, yeah. And the thing is, is how he spoke to my son about me was his feelings of me rather than separating the two thing is I think, and over time that has built where we currently are right now because of the lack of respect that his dad would talk to him about me because of the manner of that his dad, stepdad talks about me, has made my son, um, inherit their views. So I think, you know, with parent alienation, it's, it's a lot of people are going through it and a lot of people don't want to talk about it because they are ashamed and they shouldn't be. And it is something to talk about. And it's nothing that you've done wrong. A lot of the right now because of the millennial generations and the gen Z generations, they're so easily, that's one type of mentality and they're doing it to the people that love them the most. We aren't in the era of where we were as young kids. And even at that, those were changing according to many psychologists on this. The evolution of the parental child relationship has changed over the century. Right. I feel like when we were growing up, we didn't, for me personally, I didn't have, I was like, I always laugh about this. I say I was like a latchkey kid. Right? Right. And my kids laugh about that. But because I was always home alone after school or I had to walk home or because my mom worked, there was no way that I was ever going to have my children this town. So I, that's what I did in turn was nurture, nurture, nurture. And they're just like, Oh, this is the way it's supposed to be. I don't need to take care of anybody's. They're supposed to take care of me. So I think that's the mentality that comes now that we're dealing with the helicopter, parenting, parenting, all of that, protecting them. And then they, they, they're not learning anything else other than to be protected. So they're just swiping left and swiping right out of the way. They're just falling down people as they, they don't understand what relationship or family relationships are. And I think when it comes to divorce, where now these two, you know, kids are being ripped apart. And having to fend for themselves in a sense of like, um, we always played mom and GAD against each other. Even when I was younger, I knew how to play my mother[inaudible] against my mother and, but they were married so they got to get together and say, Hey, you know, Lisa do this or did she do that? And they got to, you know, band together and they were a United front against the kids. One this, it's different. They get to play mom and dad against each other and then mom and dad are fighting because they're divorced. And so the kid is actually manipulating and winning. Yeah. And so, yeah, and there's a lot of power in that and your power struggle in that and the manipulation in that. And, and they're angry and I think they're angry because we did get divorced. I'm with my case, you know, I'm dealing with a gay man. I am not dealing with a man. I'm dealing with a woman basically and his husband, slash, wife, whatever you want to call the general, um, you know, fluffy in the general man. So I'm dealing with, with, you know, two women in the sense, no disrespect to any gaggle out there, but I am dealing and then at the high spectrum of it, because they both are your fashionista type of narcissist. I'm dealing with that as well. So mine has a heightened thing where it's not a normal, you know, those types. They are very toxic. They are the toxic and they do, they will stop at nothing. Yeah. And it's the backstabbing, the cattiness. So, you know, I would hear, uh, the general talk to my son or actually not talk to my son, talk to me and goes, Oh, I'd be speaking to your child about, um, you know, we don't do this in this house. And if you want to do that, you'll have to go back to Lisa's house. And I'd sit there and go, why are you talking to my son like this? This isn't right. You should be respecting me to my son. So that way that he has respect for me. Well over time it's built up to where now we're at where my son and I in the past year have spent 15 minutes together. Wow. I'm so sorry. That was at his graduation and that was difficult. And since then, you know, it's been very, um, it's been horrible. I mean I'm not going to sit here and break down in tears anymore cause I'm done with crying, which is a great book to read to. Oh, what's it called? Cry. And it's fantastic because it's really about parent alienation and how to cope and how to deal and how to move forward because there's so much going on, especially with the child and their point of view. You have to honor their point of view. At the same time, I'm sitting here going, well wait, I was a good mother but you're making me out. Like I was this evil, evil, evil thing. And I'm like, how about remembering everything that I've done? You're sure as heck remembering everything that fluffy in the general have done for you and thinking that it's positive. Well because I think that there is that whole, you know, the gifts and the this and the celebrities and we'll take you here and I'll take it, the concerts and, and I know that you have that going on with your son. So there's a lot of kids are drawn to the Disneyland dad or the what I would call fluffy the dial in dad because he wasn't there for the past six years. You dial in from whatever location you was with whatever celebrity it was with. And that caused hate and frustration with my son. But I always would preach to him, talk to your dad, talk this out. However, on their end, they're not saying that they're talking about how crazy I am, how you need to get away from her, how you know, Booz, she's sick. BU is what the child would say. And I'm like, are you joking me? Yeah. Well that's what it is. Single parent here having to be both mother and father and disciplinary, and then you have the tide fighting against you, which is, yeah, it's really hard because I, I think that when they have this whole, you know, they're listening to the bad stuff. It's with the kid, with kids, they're sponges, they want to hear whatever it is, good or bad, what is it? They want to know what's happening. I tell my kids the truth about everything because I don't want to ever get to the point where I'm holding onto something. But they, so they, they, I think they tend to move towards that person because of the celebrityism or the, the everything. That's funny. Trinkets. Exactly. And the thing, the thing is, is this is I'm the person that he can hate the most and know that I'll always be there. Yes, that's true. Unfortunately, it's been a year of him hating me and there comes a time now, you know, my daughter's always been open for him to come back. I've always been there. I've always reached out and kindness. I've never, you know, negated any of his feelings except for one particular thing. And we can go into that somewhat time LS, but everything else it's like, yeah, I honor how you feel. Okay, I'm sorry. You feel is that I wasn't there present as a parent. Unfortunately, when I sit there and look at it, I'm like, wait, now I woke up at six in the morning. I made, well not six five 30 in the morning, major meals for the whole day so that you can get on the bus by six 50 go to school, come back after football practice, take you to the tutoring, take you here, take you there, drop you off, pick you up, get your piano lessons sacrificed. But that's not fun for them. That's not fun, right? It's not. It's for us. We're doing what we're supposed to do, but for them it's not fun. So when another person comes in and says, Oh, you're doing all that, well, let's go to Disneyland. Literally, let's go to Disneyland, or let's go to a concert, or let's go to New York to hang out here. The course, it's like, Oh, I want, but they do eventually see, all right, because when you, the fact that you gave them or him the foundation of that, let's go here and live. But that was consistency. That's right. No matter what. I always feel like a mother has more, she has Laurel sustained on. She doesn't have to be the, she can be the stronger person. She doesn't have to be the weaker parent that is doing the alienation. Like you had said, the weaker parent that does the alienation and that's fact from Dr. Coleman. So, and it's interesting too because, um, you know, they, they have to do that in order to gain control because they've lost control within the divorce. And then they do this parent alienation to make, you know, the mother feel bad. But there is about, what is it? Um, they asked 475 mothers of children's ages five and across across the United States about their parenting skills. And I think 95% of them felt as though that they weren't good mothers because of what their ex-husbands are saying and putting into the kids. And most of the kid people feel as though, you know, I felt like I was a great mom. Yeah. You know, I am a great[inaudible] but my son's opinion of me is that horrible was it didn't teach him discipline. I think that they, I think they go through that. So I have, I have a, you know, I have different ages. I have a 17 a 20 and then I have a 27 year old. And it's funny cause you know, I could see the day of the 27 year old turned like grown, grew up, you know, it's like he wasn't that kind of, you know, Oh no big deal, do whatever. Doesn't matter. He finally said to me one time, just recently too, he said, wow, I really know why you always frustrated all the time. Like been an adult is tough, you know, and, and so when I, what I say about being a mother and you're S, you know, you give them that consistency whether you know it or not, it is, it is deep, deep there. So they're going to go through there where they have to go. It's like when they'd say the bird leaves the mass. Yeah, they're going to fall and you're going to miss them. But they will come, he will come back and they do the thing too. Right now it's like, you know, um, my son would always save me. Like, why did you marry a gay guy? I'm like, well that's gay. I mean, come on. I did not, that is the best. Oh no, but it's, yeah, I didn't know he was gay so you know, cause my son's an athlete and he's male testosterone type of person and I'm like, what your got your dad's still a man. So you should be able to have that relationship with him. And I've always told him that he needs to have a relationship with his dad. Unfortunately, his dad and the general, his husband have told him otherwise with me because if they were, you know, uh, if they were at Haley the same respect and respecting the child because this is child abuse, this is a child should be able to love the other parent regardless of[inaudible] out that parent because they need to have both parents there by having just, you know, fluffy and the general as his parents right now. And I really feel like the general is become his mommy and he's not, you know, you didn't give birth to the child. You didn't carry the child. You didn't nurse the child, you didn't race him to the hospital when he had fevers or kidney stones or this, that and the other. You've known my child for six years. You are not as he puts on his social media, his dad, I was so sorry. You're not, yeah, you may have been a confidant for the past six years and been there, but you are not his parent. Um, my thing is both that child should have the right to love both parents. And I think when, you know, we try and make them take sides or you, you know, in my case, the narcissist has his own views of things that have happened, which they aren't real and you should just keep them to himself. She keep them to themselves. And we even had it in our divorce papers where we couldn't talk to our child about the financial, um, uh, allocations of the money because within the, uh, settlement with me, his child support a certain amount had to go to piano lessons. Right. And I'm like, okay, you know, cause my son's a musician, I'm like, okay. There was one time I needed to just say my controlling, very controlling, right. I should be able to do over what the fuck I want with that. Um, so there was one time I was punishing my child and I said, I'm sorry, I'm not going to let you have piano lessons because you didn't do this and you didn't do those chores and you didn't do that. And then he said, well, dad said in the settlement that part of that, Oh God, for adolescence. And I'm like, wait, also in that, that did that, you also said that you're not allowed to talk to the child about financial situations of which I adhered to because in the past I didn't, but in 2014 I'm like, okay, Nope. And when I'm sitting there and I get a phone call from my, my ex, you need to let him have his piano lessons and this, that and the other. You can't ground him that way. I'm like, this is my house. I get to. So you impeding the boundaries, they cross them all the time. They crossed them back in 2014 by telling him all of this stuff, which a little[inaudible] you know, shouldn't be, you know, in any way. The knowledge of what financially before, um, 2014 he was 13 so that was like, he didn't need to know so younger then they told him about this whole thing that happened with um, cause he stopped paying child support and alimony and I needed to allocate money towards rent and towards food. And he gave me money for tuition and I was like, you know what, I need to pay for this. And I contacted the school and told the school, do you mind if I didn't get behind on this? They then told my son about me stealing money. Oh God, school. And I'm like, no, I didn't steal the money. I actually allocated toward this because your dad wasn't paying child support and alimony,$4,000 that's what it was. As opposed to the hundred and$75,000 in back child support. Now the money that might pose me, but this is, you know, things that my son shouldn't have known about and I told him let's not talk to him about it. And they did. And that started off the whole severance of the parent alienation happening with me. So it's like, you know what I realized I'm one thing. It's like I should be able to talk to my ex about certain financial needs with my son, but I've realized not to talk to him about anything. No I can't because they'll use it against you with your child and cause parent alienation. This is the thing, it's not good because like you said, it's child abuse, it's child endangerment, you're putting your child at risk of mental health issues. You're, you know, because they're already going through it. Like they're going through it more than we even know more than they let on, you know. Um, I think we talked about this before where we, how I said, you know, they have to deal with both of us, maybe the view, and they're not claiming it was a best parent at that too. Because there's times when I was crying instead of, Hey, you know what, me too. There's times that I was, you know, couldn't get out of bed and, and then I'm thinking, gosh, why am I being so selfish? My kids are going through this and they're like going about their day. So, you know, we don't know how to handle this kind of stuff when it happens. And that's why I'm glad that we're talking about this because I think the best thing to do is to be vocal about it immediately with an, I'm always honest with my kids because I don't want to have to ever, uh, and I don't mean honest. Like I tell them everything. I mean, honest, like, you know, this is what's happening. I don't really feel good about having conversations with your dad right now because I don't trust that he has my best interest and it's normal because we're going through this situation and we're just trying to protect ourselves individually. So, you know, just talking to them that way. Because if you start to do what you were just saying with like how fluffy in the general or doing their, you know, fucking circus act, it's not, it doesn't benefit. It doesn't even benefit them in the end. Like they're not being thoughtful about your son. Well, they're not there. What they're doing is they're, they're, uh, making the divide between me and my son even greater. Right. And what for what purpose and what purpose does it serve you? Does it give you the satisfaction of knowing? Oh well it's an intention. Intention to hurt you. They, they want to continue to hurt if somebody is like intentionally doing things, crossing boundaries that are so obvious. So, right. My S my ex, I found a text from him once. Yeah. The mentality of the man is always to win. I found this one thing from my, my ex husband. Right, okay. The mission of my, my ex was to destroy me. And so that basically almost happened last year because of the parent alienation. Yeah. And there were texts prior, there were texts prior that I found or um, that he had sent my son and one of them was just insane cause I had a concussion. I was in the hospital. Right. And these texts that my ex was sending, my son read like this. My ex said to him, you need to leave. She's faking it. I will come by and pick you up. I'm like, this isn't real. And my summit texts back while I need to be here with her. No you don't. Yeah. What type of man says that to their kid? It should be a no. You need to be there for them with your mom. You need to make sure you take care of your mom, you, she's always there for you. But instead my ex is like, I will pick you up. Don't be there for her and leave her in the hospital by herself, et cetera, et cetera. And the concussion came from my son who was upset and angry and hit his door and this door, Flo fell off and hit me in the head. Oh, so you do not let a kid leave with that. You know, he needed to stay and he needed to stay by my side and learn that lesson. But my ex has done everything to not make us have a good relationship. Although he'll sit there and tell everybody, yeah, I want them to have a good relationship. Well then this past year, you should have been making sure that my son and I were talking, making sure that we were mending whatever the the hurt is, but they have done everything but to do that. See that's when you know that there's a disorder or a personality disorder that you're dealing with. And we know that with him we're dealing with NPD, but we do know that however they don't, they don't think they are. So I think that bringing more awareness to what mother fucker. Yeah, something's wrong with you. Like that's not, Hey my son, my husband did the same thing once or he, my son saying, is your mom okay? I think she's having a breakdown because she had a fight with her friend and she can't get these boards done. And he's like, no, she's okay. He's like, I wish that you guys can figure something out. And, and he said, she's just ha, she's just making a big deal out of it. Just make sure she eats something she's not eating. And I'm thinking you mother fucker like why do you do this to a child? Like just disregard. That's how they get taught to disregard you and disrespect you. And that's the[inaudible] people. Right. My parents weren't like that. My mom was like, you go talk to your doctor. Yeah. Back in the day, I think back in the sixties and seventies was much stricter even than the 80s and I think now we as parents are part to blame too because we cuddled them far too much, cuddled my kids far too much. And then now it's like, okay, you know what? I need to stop all of this. And as hard as it has been, my thing was I need to stop all contact with my ex. And once I did that, I started to pull myself out of the gutter. My door is still open to my son, but now it's kind of closed. So, you know, I just, now what I do is my door is closed. It's not locked, but you're going to have to come to an open it for me to constantly be there and be there. Like, what are you doing? You know, um, how are you are, you know, I miss you, I love you. And then to have it be returned with these most foul, disgusting texts of, you know, one in particular and that it's exactly the way my ex talked to me. My son's texts to me right now are exactly the same type of voice as my ex. And so for me that's a big clue and a big sign. Um, so I've decided now we're not texting, we're not emailing, we're not calling. You want to see me, you know where I live. You can come and do everything face to face. We need to sit there face to face, stop these texts, stop these emails. It needs to be a sit down where you and I get to talk and look at each other. That part is so, it's so far gone because they are already. So I think, I think that, um, for me, I, I am protect them. I don't, I don't want to say caudal cause I didn't ever call them my children, but I protected them and giving them that protection. I believe that kind of, they're not disrespectful to me at all. I mean, you know, the, the normal things, but I've never had to punish them. Or did I ever feel like, Oh my God, they're not going to talk to me again. There's no way that we're going to be in the same house and ignore each other because I feel that's what it was with my ex husband. You know, you, you see those same patterns in your relationship, right? Looking back, right. They would ignore you or he would alienate you or not want you to look at something. And the text thing is, you're right. It's, there's no face to face. I think with my alienation with my son, um, the strange met with him right now is, you know, I, I look at myself and say, okay, there are things that I need to take responsibility for and they have, and there's things that definitely never happened and this is being implanted by your father into your head. And you know, over time, hopefully he'll realize that this is a false memory. Um, you know, I don't know when that time will happen, but what I do see is I see a pattern with this parent and getting to know other parents that have alienated children. The pattern that the other parent has done, the conditioning, the, the talking not you know, well about you. The, the uh, pattern of making, uh, the other parent leaders, myself, not a capable parents and not sitting there and saying, your mother was really good at doing this. Your mother really helped you out on this. Your mother really did this for you. Your mother really did that for you. You know? I see. I see that coming in and it's, and it's like, it's, it's child abuse and it really is. How do you avoid getting in that situation when you're getting divorced? How do you notice the signs of what parent alienation is? How do you notice that you can combat those signs? And obviously individually we will all handle it different. I know I have, I have that going on now and my mom, it happens in divorce. They do it also. It's, and sometimes they're so manipulative and especially if you like your ex that he has it in the back of his mind that he wants to destroy you. He's using this child. Oh you use the children. And that's the one thing that really needs to be more apparent is that they're really using the children. And I don't want to say it to dis, you know, disrespect the children like, Oh you don't know that your father mother is, you know, alienating and using you, but they're not going to, that is too young. I want to keep that part separate because it's not that they are using their kid like they don't love them or they don't care. They just don't have the tools or the wherewithal to say, you know what, I really want you to have a relationship with your mom. I really like, they just don't have it in them. It was never right. We can, we can STEM on this for a second. It's a narcissist, right when my case it's a narcissist and the child, yeah, the child is a possession. So the child is a possession to them. And so for them, he's winning right now. Fluffy is winning and the general is winning because there are possession is now with them. Now the thing is, this is my son now lives with them and so now they get to experience everything that I did for eight years. Because before it was just, you know, a honeymoon phase for the past year. Although, you know, my, my extra tell me before I stopped all communication with them, how great it was there. They don't fight. They don't this. I'm like, yeah, you're in the down fucking honeymoon stage. Good way. Just wait until you find pee all over the floor and you got to clean it up. Or you know, he's not putting the away. He'll be on his best behavior now because you know, it's blissful, it's fun. We're a happy little try. You know, family of narcissists living all together on one roof and then it ends, it will end. I don't know how many years from now, but until that time I have to take care of myself. That's the hardest thing for parents, um, that have been alienated is to let go, not shut the door, but then focus on you. Your child does not define how you're going to have your happiness in the future. And that as painful as it is to go through parent alienation, my whole thing has now been, I need to work on me. I need to be the best way I can be. And eventually, you know, as my son gets older and he starts to realize exactly what's going on, the unfortunate thing is he's going to realize how much time he's lost. That's another emotional mindfuck that he has to go through that his loving father has put him through and his loving step, mommy, daddy, whatever the hell you want. And he's good. They're going to have their turn. I mean, yeah, it's not, it's going to end. It really will. And the thing that I think is the best thing is that we just tell our kids the truth. You know, this is happening. I don't know why he's saying these things can't even come to me. Like, my son won't even come to me to sit down and talk about these things. Someone, the parent is not allowing them to see the other parent. Well that, that's, that's child abuse as well, to not letting the other parents see them. It all depends. I mean, there may be circumstances of drug abuse or things like that. Um, you know, like my ex makes my sense, you know, he didn't see my son that much because he was traveling all over the place, but now he's twisted. The story is that I wouldn't let him and I'm like, no. In the beginning I wouldn't let you see him without supervision because you were addicted to steroids, had road rage, a new vein, um, liquid Ambien, all of these things, you should be supervised when you're seeing him. That's what I wanted. But I never wanted you not to see him. You didn't want to see him because you are traveling all over and I've got texts on that. I'm going to go to Italy and never come back knowing you and Romeo will never see me. So, Oh, there's great. There's great, great like meets with this guys needs, we need to talk about this more. I think so the reading, like the EOY guy, I just read some of Lisa's emails before we started recording and I was thinking, my God, these are insane. We need to, we need to talk about those. So what do you think your takeaway is? What it can give parents to take away that are getting divorced? It's like, you know, in hindsight I really wish I would have stopped communication with my ex a lot sooner than I did. I think that probably would have been the best recourse for me cause I don't think there's any unconscious coupling or anything on that. There's too many heightened emotions. It would be great if you can work together and I've always tried, the problem is is when I've always tried with my ex, I sacrificed myself. Yeah. And so I was still in that abusive marriage even though we were divorced. What I really needed to do was separate it completely and as hard as it is, it's like we only need to talk about here's your visitation. Co-parenting is, I don't know how some people do it. I thought I was doing it. Parallel parenting is better. It's like these are my rules at my house. When you go to, your dads can't control what that other person's going to say, but what you can do is hope that you have your kids in the healthy environment. There's no assistance. See the consistency that you shared, your child needs to happen. In the other one, I should have been more of a disciplinary when my ex called me up and told me I couldn't take away his piano, what I needed to say was, fuck you. This is my fucking house. Don't tell me how and what I'm going to punish my child with. This is my place and go jump the fuck off and never call me again. Yeah, that's what I should've done. But don't you agree that if you look back, I look back at certain times when I saw that text, I couldn't even say that to him because I didn't want to fight. Because you know you don't want, yeah, you're in a certain state where you're not clear yourself. But I think you have to do it. But if they can't do it, do it. People just eliminate the amount of conversation you have with when are you picking them up? One of the breaks or all of this. And it has to be like, like a business. That's how I see it. Because you are separating assets. So it has to be like a business. Not saying that your children are a business, but I think what you kind of are, that's why I don't, yeah, I don't, I wouldn't say only because of the children, but I think the interaction, yes. In order for you to gain who you are so you can be stronger than I was not getting my strength back that I had prior to when I was married. Yeah. And I lost it all. And then I focused, you know, I hyperfocused on my ex during our marriage and then I hyperfocused on my son. I was overbearing, had no boundaries with my son. I issue packing. Yeah. Cause you're how many this that now for the past year I've been able to focus on myself and it's been a night and day change advice to people out there going through it in the midst of it. The less you can communicate with that ex the better. And even if you think you have a great relationship, you don't, cause I kept thinking that it's really because you're in shock. First of all, we're trying to break down our mental atmosphere about what the fuck just happened. And then you got, you're dealing with a child. So there's a lot of panic that goes on. But when you can't, you can't write. I mean I know I couldn't, there was no way that I could say to him at that time, we hadn't even been divorced yet. Cause when you're going through it, there's a lot of other stuff that's starting to percolate. You're not wanting to address that cause you're wanting to make things work. Trying to make things nice because Oh my God, he might stop paying and this, that and the other, but don't. Why do I have that carrot dangling over you? It's like, screw it. He's not going to, there's so many women out there that I know that are in the same position I am where the ex hasn't paid and then you know, my ex has made it very clear she doesn't have to pay because alimony and child supports just to get me back on my feet. Well listen, mother fucker, I made your business. The reason that you're like tramping around with all of these celebrities is because I pulled you out of the original hair salon. You made your own. Yeah, you around all of those people, so you know what it's because of me. Yeah, you're a great stylist, but let's get real business wise. You saw, I know how to do business and I made you who you are so you know what you have to pay be terrible. A business then with the dealings of your child. Well, no, with that, that's a control. That's completely a control. We'll talk if we talk about business like that. This is why I'm saying this is because if one person, if a person is doing something and one area, they're doing it all of their life. So if you knew he's fucked up in business, he's not a good business person, you're going to say, well, he's going to be, my son has never seen the struggle that his dad went through or never saw the successful person that I was prior because now he sees just me struggling and need going down into a deep depression. But now, but now I'm back. So the thing is, but he doesn't see that right now too, because his dad has him, you know, still hating me. Yeah. It's really a shame. The children, well, it's a child abuse. It's seriously child. You know? I never thought of it that way. But you're right, it is child abuse because the thing is is you're abusing this kid's emotion and as you get older, as he gets older, you know you're going to come through different stages and realizations and stuff. There's times that I hated my mother and then there's times that I've respected her as a business woman. Respect her immensely as a mother, not so much, but I still love her. The thing is too, with my dad, the same thing. We all hate our parents when we were teenagers. The problem with parent alienation is some of these parents like my ex, take that opportunity to dig their claws and rip that that and I would say it to my ex a lot. Don't you see him playing us? My ex fed into that and now all I can do is is be me. Be strong, be powerful. Go out there and be the person that I need to be. It doesn't mean that I don't cry every day for my son. It doesn't mean that, you know, I don't think of him every single moment. It doesn't mean any of that. My takeaway to everybody out there is you've got to watch out for the warning signs. You have young kids. That's even harder. Therapy is very important for those kids and it needs to be a therapist that both parents do not get to manipulate. It needs to be mandatory in the courts because there was times where my ex would say, okay, we'll go, we'll go, and then he w we wouldn't go and it was months and months and then I had ended up paying for it and he didn't want to pay for it. It's just, it's such a mess and it doesn't need to be that way because the kids being ripped apart too and that's just the more neutral you can be and I always believe you should always talk positive about the other parent. No matter how much you hate them, you know I would, you know there was a period. Yes, right. I am definitely guilty of talking bad about my ex in front of me, but then I started biting my tongue in 2014 I'm like, you know what? I'm going to stop this. I'm going to stop talking about it. I'm just going to talk about the positive qualities. Your dad is really good at what he does. Your dad is really good at this. You ask him about those things and always trying to promote them up. And then when I heard him talk evil on me one day when I walked in, my son was still at home and I heard the whole conversation and how they talked about me. This was two years ago, I just sat there and went, you know, I told this actually I told the story to a friend of mine who has two kids that are alienated from him. He has five but it's the same type of situation. He was telling me about it and I'm like, I heard this conversation. He's like, watch out your, your ex is building a case to parent alien eight you from your child. And he was 100% correct. And there's lots of organizations out there, there's the parent alienation association there that you can go to. There is Dr. Coleman who does a huge therapist and alienation. And like I said, uh, the other book I'm done with crying, it's hard, makes you feel like you're a failure and you're not a failure. What you have is you have another parent that is pushing this agenda. It's hard because you don't want it to be that way, but there's nothing you can really do because like you said, we can't control the other side and what they do, but at the same time, I don't, I don't say to my kids, Oh, your dad's really, I don't protect him anymore because I want him. I want them to know that I'm not going to protect or side with whatever he's doing because to me it's like you're allowing the disrespect. So I don't, I don't say anything about him anymore. I, because there was times where I'd say, Oh, well it's okay. Your dad, he would, they would tell him, he would come to pick them up and they would make them wait 10 minutes, 15 minutes, and then in the beginning I was like, well, don't make your dad wait. Don't now I'm just like, I'm not going to push them to go any direction anymore. I think that's the whole thing too. It's just like[inaudible] stay out of it. Don't talk to your ex that much. Don't give them any ammunition, and if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all. I hope that you guys are enjoying it. We're getting like a lot of feedback. I love you guys so much. Thanks for being here. Talk to you soon. Ciao. Bye.